Caroline Ashley (pictured) is a globally respected thought leader in sustainable development, known for her trailblazing work at the intersection of business, climate, and social equity. One of the UK’s most influential sustainability speakers, she brings over three decades of experience shaping corporate responsibility, climate finance, and impact strategy.
As the former Global Director of System Change at Forum for the Future, Caroline has worked with major organisations—from DFID to Shell—to embed sustainability at the heart of decision-making.
In this exclusive interview with Brighton Journal, she discusses how businesses can lead systemic transformation, why food and finance are pivotal to climate action, and what it truly means to deliver a just and inclusive transition.
Q: Considering intensifying climate threats, what would you say to businesses that still view sustainability as a financial risk rather than a strategic imperative?
Caroline Ashley: “I would ask, what’s the business case for your business in a world where huge swathes of population can’t live where they’re living, huge parts of our arable land are no longer arable, and basic ecosystem services such as pollination are breaking down?
“Before you reach those, you’ll have societal disruption. So, what does a business look like where societies are not functioning? I was just looking at data on heat stress, which has been in the news recently. I have a colleague based in India, and he’s telling me about how they must stay inside in the air conditioning.
“As many people are already missing work due to heat stress—and that’s before we reach 1.5°C of climate change. So, I would ask people to consider how fragile business continuity becomes in the face of escalating environmental instability.
“And I would finally say, does your business have insurance? They would say yes. And I’d say, how will you operate when you reach the point where there are many things for which your business cannot get insurance?
“And that’s not science fiction. Insurance companies are seriously considering what happens when things are no longer insurable.”
Q: With sustainability now a core expectation, what is the most fundamental shift a business can make to genuinely contribute to system-wide change?
Caroline Ashley: “Businesses are all over the shop. We’ve got some real leaders, and we’ve got some real laggards. So, it’s hard to say one thing. But the one thing that I think is common across all of them—that they all need—is to understand their role and responsibility in driving change, and their ambition.
“I would say that amounts to a few different things. One is to just say, “We’re doing better than we did last year.” That’s not enough. Is it what society needs? Is it what the planet needs? If it’s not enough, it’s still not good enough.
“Another is not to say, “We’re doing better than other people in our sector.” Again, that’s not enough. We can still go to hell in a handcart, to use a phrase, if we’re doing it that way.
“Another really important point is to say: business has a role and responsibility to be part of a bigger change. So, I wouldn’t just say, change your own business to look after yourself. I’d say we’re on a huge socio-economic transition here.
“It’s about how business teams up with others, how they work. We call it system change—changing everything from the narratives that underlie the surface, to the specific actions. Think about how your part of a bigger process of change. Some businesses have done that.
“But if the leaders at the top are not really signed up to being part of the future, I don’t think all these ESG targets and sustainability things on the website—or even just dealing with your emissions, at least in your Scope 1 or 2—I don’t think that’s going to be enough.
“You have to have that vision at the top.”
Q: Your work prioritises transformation in both food and finance. Why are these systems so central to sustainable development?
Caroline Ashley: “Those are two sectors I focus on particularly—for different reasons. Food, partly because in my career in international development, I’ve spent a lot of time under the tree with farmers—people who really depend on their farming livelihoods. That’s part of my background.
“But really because food is at the nexus of two social issues and two environmental issues. So, it’s the absolute heart—but it’s the unrecognised heart.
“The social issues are: billions of people in the world depend on the production of food for their livelihoods—farming, or producing, or gathering in other ways—and they’re amongst the poorest people in the world, because agricultural incomes tend to be very low and agriculture is neglected.
“Then all of us—every single one of us—depends on food for our health and our nutrition. So socially, it’s a huge issue.
“Environmentally, food is a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions—but we haven’t really focused on it yet. All the talk has been about energy, and the energy transition has started. The food transition is about a decade behind.
“It was squeaking onto the agenda at COP26. It’s getting more onto the agenda at COP27. But in terms of climate, food has got to be central. And it’s not just about climate—it’s about our ecology and our ecosystems.
“To be honest, our mass production—chuck chemicals at it, produce vast acres or hectares of the same crop—that’s damaged ecosystems, water quality, biodiversity. So, we’ve got climate, ecosystems, livelihoods, and nutrition—and food is at the heart of all four. We really must focus on food as an agent of change.
“Finance is different. I started working a bit with the finance sector about a decade ago, and it was so niche. This idea of impact investing seemed radical—it was very niche.
“But in the last five years, finance has really accelerated. It’s caught up and gone beyond business in some ways in thinking about climate—probably only climate, but at least climate. But all the focus, or nearly all the focus, is on ESG—it’s about data, metrics, and screening.
“The bigger question is: what’s the role of finance in shaping what business does? What decisions are you making with this data? How are you driving a transition?
“There’s a much bigger conversation to be had about the role of finance. I feel we’re at a tipping point there. There’s lots of potential, but we haven’t quite harnessed finance to really drive change yet. So, I think finance is critical to development—to what we develop next.”
Q: As the sustainability agenda advances, how do we ensure that climate transitions are equitable and socially inclusive?
Caroline Ashley: “I think that’s the key question that we are beginning to realise has not been addressed yet. Change is coming. But is it going to be a just transition? There are two reasons why we must focus on whether it’s going to be just. One is practical.
“You might be immoral or amoral, but to be honest, any change we have—it’s not going to last, it’s not going to be sustainable, and it’s going to be challenged socially or politically if it doesn’t work for people.
“We’ve already seen that in examples where people protest what are relatively small changes compared to what we need. So, to be practical, it’s got to be socially inclusive and fair.
“There’s also the moral argument. This is our chance to change how we run the economy—to solve these twin evils of biosphere breakdown and gross inequality.
“Inequality is incredibly deep. We need to address that at the same time we restructure our economy. We can do both now. But I’ve got one big caveat here.
“It is interesting that just transition is coming onto the agenda—I’m seeing more discussions about it. But it tends to be talked about in terms of these are the costs, and these are the benefits.
“These are the financial costs—who’s going to pay, through taxes or premium products? And these are the benefits—new jobs, and who’s going to get them? Of course, those are important—but it’s not enough. Just talking about financial costs and jobs is not a just transition.
“A just transition is where people can decide for themselves what their future locality looks like, which pathway they want, how land will be used differently, what kind of training and skills they need, and what the new workforce looks like.
“So, it’s about people’s decisions and voice. It’s not just about who gets retrained in AI.”
Q: With the cost-of-living climbing, how realistic is it to expect people to prioritise sustainable consumption—and what needs to change?
Caroline Ashley: “They’re clearly not affordable for everyone. I’m someone on a professional salary who can afford to be picky with what I buy, and I look at the price premium and think—gulp, do I really want to pay that?
“Of course, they’re not affordable for friends and family members who are on benefits or low incomes. I know that. But I think that’s used a bit too much as a barrier— “We can’t do this because it won’t work for the masses.”
“If we look at the subsidies that we put into the fossil fuel industry, conventional agriculture, and all kinds of public infrastructure that enable our economy to work as it is—whether that’s roads, waste systems, or water—there are huge subsidies going into the current economy.
“So, we must change the system so that we produce things in a sustainable way and then deploy the subsidies so that the people who need support can afford them. We just must shift several billions so that we can do both: produce what we need sustainably, and make sure people can afford it.”
This exclusive interview with Caroline Ashley was conducted by Jack Hayes.
