James Payne is a renowned sustainability & environment speaker and a leading expert on systems innovation, regenerative business, and climate strategy. As Director of Transformational Strategies at Forum for the Future, he advises global organisations on how to lead with purpose in the face of growing environmental and social complexity.
In this interview, James shares his perspective on the mindset shift needed for net-positive transformation, how technology can accelerate climate action, and why authentic sustainability communication is more vital than ever.
Q: With rising scrutiny around greenwashing and an increase in sustainability regulations globally—particularly across the EU—how can businesses communicate their sustainability goals in a way that is both authentic and effective?
James: “Yeah, that’s a question that many of the businesses I work with are wrestling with. I think there’s a lot of concern currently around greenwashing, and rightly so—particularly with the reputational risks around it, but also with all of the regulation we’re seeing coming through, especially from the EU.
“It’s a big concern for businesses. Obviously, there’s a lot of backlash as well in places like North America and the politicisation of ESG. So, I think what we are seeing more and more is green hushing, where businesses are doing really good work around sustainability but are not communicating it or not talking about it.
“And that is an issue, that is a problem, because to make progress on these issues, we need many, many businesses—all of the incumbents and businesses across key sectors—to be taking action and to be seen to be taking action, in order to create that sense of momentum.
“So, talking about what you’re doing, talking about your goals, what you’re achieving, sharing what you’re learning—this is central to creating the broader, more systemic impact that’s needed.
“We’re real proponents at Forum for the Future of what we call “green doing”—so setting ambitious targets, taking bold action, and communicating the actions that you’re taking and the ambitions that you’re setting.
“It’s not always just about communicating what you’ve already done. Obviously, it’s good to have a track record and substance behind what you’re doing.
“But there is real power also in communicating your ambition for what you want to achieve, because in that ambition, you attract partners, collaborators, and people who want to be part of realising that vision.
“So, we would really advocate for communicating both bold ambitions and the actual tangible substance that sits behind them. It’s also about engagement and being authentic about what you’re struggling with.
“We’d always say it’s better to aim high, set a target based on what the world needs, and make a genuine effort to achieve that—engaging authentically around it and communicating where you’re falling short or what you’re finding difficult—rather than setting a low, easily achievable target that isn’t what’s needed. That’s not going to get us where we need to be.”
Q: As businesses across sectors face intensifying pressure to act on ESG priorities, what do you believe are the most urgent sustainability issues leaders should prioritise today—and how can they begin addressing these challenges internally?
James: “The most pressing issues for any specific business will be as unique as the business itself. The most relevant, most material issues will completely depend on the sector you’re in and what your business does. So, you know, it’s hard to answer that question generically.
“Obviously though, there are some issues that are really time-critical. Climate, in particular—we know we have a narrow window of opportunity, over the balance of this decade, probably the next five to six years, where we still have an opportunity to mitigate the worst impacts of climate breakdown.
“We need 50% decarbonisation by the end of this decade in order for that to really be possible. So we need massive transformation across all sectors, and we need that to happen rapidly to avoid some of the critical tipping points that we know we’ll cross if we don’t act. So that’s an obvious one.
“But when we look at the rate of biodiversity loss, or how—particularly after the pandemic—the numbers on inequality are really going in the wrong direction in many places, I think what business leaders are facing is really a “polycrisis”. Multiple, very challenging contextual issues that are all interrelated and compounding.
“Climate change isn’t just an environmental issue. It’s also clearly a very big social issue, with huge health implications, and it’s interconnected with nature and inequality. Not addressing these interconnected issues will make every one of them worse as they compound.
“But also, on the positive side, successfully addressing some of them—finding solutions that solve multiple issues simultaneously—means taking smarter, more effective approaches to really get to the root causes. That can yield compounding benefits too.
“So, there are many issues, but what’s important is that you’re approaching them in the right way, with the right sense of urgency, while also understanding the interconnections, rather than addressing them in isolation. And really, what’s needed for that is a new way of thinking and acting.
“What I see a lot with the business leaders who are most successfully navigating this is an understanding that the operating context their businesses are facing is now fundamentally different than the relatively stable and benign environment that most senior business leaders have enjoyed for much of their careers.
“We’ve seen, for instance, in IKEA, they’ve moved away from fixed strategy roadmaps and are now using scenario planning for business planning—because they recognise how volatile their operating context is, including their value chains.
“So the idea that you can map out what you’re doing for the next eight quarters, or however long, is just a fallacy. They’ve shifted to scenario planning instead.
“And I think what we’re increasingly seeing is enlightened business leaders facing into this reality, recognising they need to think and act differently, and embracing a new approach to managing their businesses.”
Q: Many companies are now aiming for net positive or regenerative outcomes, but few achieve lasting success. From your experience, what is the most significant challenge businesses should prepare for as they move in this direction?
James: “I think people often talk about the technological challenges or the lack of the right regulatory environment, but in all of my experience of working with businesses, the biggest challenge to moving to net positive or regenerative approaches is really your mindset.
“What’s needed is a fundamentally different way of thinking and acting—to move away from a way of thinking that worked well in a stable, benign operating context.
Many business leaders have built their entire careers based on a very mechanistic way of working: addressing issues in silos, breaking things down into smaller parts, rewarding specialism. And hierarchy and taking time to make the “right” decision was seen as more important than making a quick one. Standardising things globally was seen as smart.
“But now, facing a polycrisis and an increasingly volatile and uncertain context, what’s needed is a much more agile, responsive, adaptive, and context-specific approach. That’s a very different way of running a business than a slow-moving, top-down, siloed model. And it’s a real challenge.
“No amount of having the right strategy or technology will overcome a mindset that isn’t future-fit—that isn’t confronting the new reality of a volatile operating environment. That future-fit mindset involves delegating authority far more than before, enabling people in your business to be adaptive and to create solutions that are context-specific and responsive.
“It’s about co-creating solutions with partners, customers, and suppliers, rather than imposing solutions or assuming you have all the answers. It’s about exploring possibility and bringing ingenuity to the table.
“With sustainability, the focus historically has been on risk mitigation and avoiding reputational harm. But increasingly, the value lies in being creative and addressing interconnected issues together—that’s where you get co-benefits and unlock new sources of value.
“That said, it’s a tough shift. As a business leader, you’re often being asked to rethink the very approach that’s made you successful.
“So, a degree of humility is essential—to acknowledge the reality of your current context and that the things that have gotten you to where you are may not serve you in the future. You need to be open to growth and changing course.”
Q: You briefly touched on technology earlier. Given the current pace of innovation, how do you see technology being most effectively leveraged to combat climate change—both in terms of existing tools and future breakthroughs?
James: “One of the things that’s abundantly clear is that we already have all the technology we need to tackle climate change.
“Initiatives like Project Drawdown highlight that simply applying existing technologies at scale can get us to a point where we’re drawing down more carbon dioxide and greenhouse gases than we’re emitting.
“So, it’s not about some missing, breakthrough technology—we just need to deploy, scale, and mainstream what we already have. That said, deployment at scale is no small feat. The required infrastructure, investment, and business innovation is massive.
“Take energy: renewable energy is now often cheaper than fossil fuels. In agriculture, regenerative techniques like crop rotation and cover crops—based on centuries-old indigenous knowledge—are now being scaled. So again, not always about the latest gadget.
“But there are also areas where technology is still needed—particularly in hard-to-abate sectors like aviation, green hydrogen, steel, and other heavy industries. And we’re seeing promising breakthroughs.
“For example, in the protein space—maize and dairy proteins are highly emissions-intensive. The work happening around precision fermentation is revolutionary and could transform entire industries in five to ten years.
“There’s definitely disruption coming, and some technologies are right on the brink of scaling. But it’s also important to remember how much opportunity lies in scaling what we already have. For example, when I worked with Diageo—the global drinks business—to set their 2030 strategy back in 2019, they leaned into what we call the innovation gap.
“Rather than setting a target based on what’s immediately feasible, they set targets based on what the world needs—and then worked backwards to identify and develop the innovations to get there. They didn’t just leave it to chance. They launched Diageo Sustainable Solutions, an open innovation platform that called for the technologies they needed. And it’s worked.
“Glass bottles were one of their biggest carbon contributors, and when we set the strategy, zero-carbon glass bottle technology didn’t exist. Now, they’re piloting a glass manufacturing facility in the UK that produces net-zero bottles—something that came directly from setting ambitious targets and creating the environment for breakthroughs.
“So, for businesses, the lesson is clear: doing nothing is no longer safe. In more stable times, being a fast follower might have been smart. But now, it’s smarter to be the innovator, the pioneer—to lead, rather than be left behind.”
This interview with James Payne was conducted by Jack Hayes.
